Sleepwalkers

[Foales Arishes]

i find your aspect of the tidy sound has something ......i think its to do with the clean cut studio hardware like the lexion effects that david uses...
i had these a few years ago and i have to admit everthing that was analog sounded digital after going through a lexicon .....i also made the mistake and had a digital mixer ....now i have a good old moody mixer that cracks and gives stress
the effects i changed to a good old cheap alesis now everything sounds great ....

I think it's more to do with his personality than the technology, it's the style rather than the difference between analogue and digital [an overplayed argument anyway]... he seems like a very precise person, everything is highly considered and analysed, no mistake is allowed to pass... even his interviews are of military precision in their delivery. Blemish and Manafon have a degree of looseness, due in most part to the contribution of others, whos whole way of creating music were at odds with his own, but I don't think it has rubbed off. He did say in one interview that he almost never accepts a first take, and sometimes –to me – his music sounds like there have been so many takes all the life has vanished… what your left with is very polished, but lacking soul.

It’s strange that so many say Manafon and Blemish leave them cold, as for me it’s these collections that have most heart… A lot of Sleepwalkers leaves me feeling rather chilly...

[Haldeman Gracie]

Well, now I feel really silly -- i guess it should have plainly occured to me that Ingrid is obviously prepping to display her terroristic skills in Random Acts Of Senseless Violence...and she is definitely the cranky old man who inspired the text to the title track...and of course, she would have been that typical babysitting teen living a dull existence who turned to drugs for some excitement and social acceptance...not to mention that she would definitely be the muse behind the self obsessed and suicidal writer who would hope to be considered the greatest living Englishman...and without a doubt she has something to do with the eventual rationalization that spiritual religions and idolatry are dead end paths....so yeah
obviously it is all about her.

I've so far found your comments on Manafon to be little more than a tracklisting. See the other thread for individual responses to your points.

[darkerbird]

I would argue that a lot of the content on Manafon concerns Ingrid, and the continuing fallout from the marriage.Sylvian has released tracks before concerning his thoughts on world affairs, so obviously he has other things on his mind too. So I don't think stating the bleeding obvious about individual tracks (i.e. Random Acts.. being about terrorism) counts as exegesis, nor does being rather cutting about anothers' attempt to interpret the work in a less literal way count as 'matey' humour.No matter how many smiley faces accompany the post. I would also argue that some posters are very quick to take others to task for having an opinion, yet convey their own musings in a rather pompous and pretentious manner. Just my tuppence!

[missouriman]

The titles mean nothing. It is Ingrid that consumed him and if it seems like terrorism is the subject then it is her terrorism, his "rabbit" being skinned etc. You have to associate it all to her or it comes across as merely pop blogging. Everything and nothing. Everything is personal with David. I doubt he sits in a wood thinking about the personal ramifications of Al Qeda upon his life.

I did enjoy bahts interpretations and in fact I like to read any and all thoughts on his work except the whining naysayers who F*CK me off so bad now.

[baht habit]

Just as I previously wrote, I will be the first to admit that my interpretations of lyrics are shallow because I don't feel I have the ability to scratch deeper than the surface. I know full well enough that others are more qualified than I. But in this particular instance, I think that it is going a bit too far to attempt to suggest that Sylvian would look at his former wife and mother of his children within the framework of terrorism.
I suppose I could be wasting my typing fingers. Perhaps some of the fanbase want to only focus on the personal life of the one they focus on and therefore only wish to believe that their idol wants to communicate his personal feelings dealing with former marital situation in every single line he writes....even if the content was written four years after the marriage dissolved.
But recall that a track like Banality of Evil was inspired by the fear mongering of the past US administration and the implications of their "Patriot Act" ... the attempt by the batshit crazy attorney general and dark overlord viceroy at bypassing the civil liberties of common citizens.... do recall the interest that Sylvian showed in world events to create World Citizen. Not only could Random Acts seem most likely inspired by the terrorism perpetrated by a foreign entity, such as the aforementioned Al Quaeda, but I do recall Sylvian mentioning something in regards to domestic terrorism that could possibly arise from the threat to citizens' civil liberties.
Though I am not attempting to change minds. I am merely trying to grasp how others can put forth their opinions with the utmost of certainty.

[neonico]

I think an interpretation of davids work is ok when the intepret doesnt do a ......to death analysis.

the coment thx for the explantion of the lyrics from me was refering to the the interpretation....

David is the only one who truely knows whats in his writing

there was an interview i recall...i will have to dig it out where david does a detailed description of his own songs from the nine horses period

that covers most of the writing on sleepwalkers including exit delete



the latter being about ingrid shes known as caroline . .

though every interview has already been posted on this forum

therefore a detailed anaylsis here would be more appropriate ....theres a little button called search...

in my opinion this was all digested through during the nine horses period therefore i find repetion to be tedious with in itself....

[digimarsh]

We all tend to gain from lyrical content our own interpretation ,in the sense that the words could resonate profoundly in terms of events in your own life or feelings you may have experienced.Another way is to put ourselves in the postion of the composer and derive meaning from the words of somebody's work using our knowledge of that paticular artist as a base for our theories.These processes are one of the joys of listening to music that is considered thoughtfull and challenging.I feel David's writing in recent years reflects his continual maturing as a person ,he reflects on his own experiences,emotions and in some cases his thoughts on the world around him and events that occur in it.He does tend to use different methods to 'dress up' his thoughts , creating charecters though who's eyes he sees certain events or experiences he may or may not have been exposed to himself.You can not escape the fact that David is getting older subsequently his work has a cutting edge that tends to dip into cynacism at times.Everybody here will identify with some of the subjects raised on ,Blemish,SBS ,Manafon and Sleepwalkers ect.
To me this is all part of the greatness of his output ,i have said before it's like dipping into a film or novel sometimes,listening to his recent work.Imho i find his recent material more compelling then the work of yesteryear and an all together different experience, looking forward to more of the same.

[darkerbird]

being only an occasional lurker to this site I guess the main thing that surprises me the most from all this, is the fact that a lot of people really really dislike Manafon!! I understand it is not to everyone's taste, but there is a real Marmite situation here: Those who love it, really love it, and those that don't really hate it. I honestly believe it is the best work Sylvian has ever done and I find new things to wonder at every time I play it. The immense weight of sadness Sylvian conveys in the lines "...and you're guilty of some self-neglect, and the mind unravels for days..." or "She made such a hash of it..." Heartbreaking stuff. The volume of detail in The Greatest Living...lyrically and musically, is a thing of beauty too although it did take me a while to get around the vinegary melody. It's not Orpheus, I grant you, but having done that, I wouldn't want him to be still working that seam. Whether Manafon is a thumbs up or a thumbs down from the fans is surely irrelevant. The fact that Sylvian can still produce work of such a high quality is enough in itself.

[missouriman]

being only an occasional lurker to this site I guess the main thing that surprises me the most from all this, is the fact that a lot of people really really dislike Manafon!! I understand it is not to everyone's taste, but there is a real Marmite situation here: Those who love it, really love it, and those that don't really hate it. I honestly believe it is the best work Sylvian has ever done and I find new things to wonder at every time I play it. The immense weight of sadness Sylvian conveys in the lines "...and you're guilty of some self-neglect, and the mind unravels for days..." or "She made such a hash of it..." Heartbreaking stuff. The volume of detail in The Greatest Living...lyrically and musically, is a thing of beauty too although it did take me a while to get around the vinegary melody. It's not Orpheus, I grant you, but having done that, I wouldn't want him to be still working that seam. Whether Manafon is a thumbs up or a thumbs down from the fans is surely irrelevant. The fact that Sylvian can still produce work of such a high quality is enough in itself.

I posted "Snow White in Appalachia" on my Facebook page last night. I have many Sylvian fans as friends and expected the usual "Like" from them. A friend who is not a fan commented that he really liked the song. He loves hard metal and industrial techno music, but he listened to the entire song and was touched by the lyrics. I was delighted. I asked him how come he enjoyed something so "different" and he said he heard an interesting piece of music with a strange time signature and lyrics that connected. How come so called fans here have trouble with this work then? He said it is a quite conventional ballad despite the unconventional instrumentation. It was quite enlightening to hear a non-fan's take on Manafon. Much more interesting than the spoiled whining of people who are stuck in 1984 still.

[neonico]

It was quite enlightening to hear a non-fan's take on Manafon. Much more interesting than the spolied whines of people who are stuck in 1984 still.

Couldnt have articulated it better ....

[inkinthewell]

How come so called fans here have trouble with this work then?

Just a guess: can it be that some DS fans are fans because at one time Sylvian's music was considered the thing you really had to be into if you wanted to be considered on the right side of "artsy"? With such outputs as Brilliant Trees and Secrets Of The Beehive it was an extremely easy thing to fall in love with his music, but the slightest deviation from that musical route was bound to be a big problem for such fans.

[missouriman]

How come so called fans here have trouble with this work then?

Just a guess: can it be that some DS fans are fans because at one time Sylvian's music was considered the thing you really had to be into if you wanted to be considered on the right side of "artsy"? With such outputs as Brilliant Trees and Secrets Of The Beehive it was an extremely easy thing to fall in love with his music, but the slightest deviation from that musical route was bound to be a big problem for such fans.

I have been a fan and follower of his work since 1980. I was drawn in by the "look" at first I admit, but the music became more important than the images. Maybe there are some people who still consider themselves fans, but were always about the "surface noise" rather than the deeper implications of his work. David became the soundtrack to my life. I flirted with other peoples music, but I always came home to his work. From the flapping pop of 1982 to the jazzy experimentations to the improvisations of late he provided the place I found myself most at ease. If we have not matured alongside him then we have nobody else to blame but ourselves. I understand where he is. It is a shame we have to spell it out for the slow learners..

[ScottR]

The bottom line for me is the music is just not that good. When you compare it to what he has done in the past it has become hardly worth mentioning. Its not just me that feels this way, check out the amazon.co.uk site for reviews and star ratings. His influence has been in steady decline for years. But on the other hand SBS has done quite well overall. So how long has he been pedaling this manafon dirge now? its already been 6 years invested, now we hear of manafon the instrumental. Lets spend a couple a more years wading in this pool of depression.

While your on that amazon site look how well the Sleepwalker record is doing. Is it because its somewhat of a a return to formity? I know I cant speak for the diehards in this box but I think the vast majority of fans are ready for him to move on. Crank up the Nine Horses machine, call Bobby Fripp... do something

[Chet]

at least jaqueline and certain slant gives us hope for the future...

[Simonp]

The bottom line for me is the music is just not that good. When you compare it to what he has done in the past it has become hardly worth mentioning. Its not just me that feels this way, check out the amazon.co.uk site for reviews and star ratings. His influence has been in steady decline for years. But on the other hand SBS has done quite well overall. So how long has he been pedaling this manafon dirge now? its already been 6 years invested, now we hear of manafon the instrumental. Lets spend a couple a more years wading in this pool of depression.

While your on that amazon site look how well the Sleepwalker record is doing. Is it because its somewhat of a a return to formity? I know I cant speak for the diehards in this box but I think the vast majority of fans are ready for him to move on. Crank up the Nine Horses machine, call Bobby Fripp... do something

It's all relative isnt it? What some like, others hate. Maybe his work isnt "as good" as what's gone before but I admire his reluctance to tread over the same ground time and time again. Scott, I think it's time for you to realise that Sylvian ain't going to make another SOTB and get over it. If Five Lines is anything to go by, I CANNOT wait for Manafon "the instrumental" to come. I don't know where this instrumental news has come from. As far as I am aware Dai Fujikura is reworking a number of the Manafon tracks to feature the ICE ensemble. There is nothing to say that David's vocals won't be on the record.

I know I cant speak for the diehards in this box but I think the vast majority of fans are ready for him to move on

I'm a diehard fan but I havent liked everything that Sylvian has released. I barely listen to Blemish. I don't enjoy it. It's as simple as that. BUT I just know that whatever comes next is something that I wasn't expecting and that's what I love about him.