Women in music

[Melaszka]

This is probably one of those topics which is only of interest to me, so please feel free to ignore it.

I read an interview with Sharleen Spiteri recently where she recounted some of the incidents of sexism she's had to put up with in the music industry, which have ranged from senior executives of her record company feeling they had the right to discuss her appearance in crude sexual terms while she was standing right in front of them, to critics and fans consistently underestimating her input to Texas's songs, on the grounds that "She's a chick, right? Obviously she couldn't have done much of the writing."

This struck a chord with me, as I've always felt women get a raw deal in music, whether it's bands refusing to engage female instrumentalists, labels signing girls for their looks, rather than their talent, or male fans patronisingly assuming that female fans don't really like or understand the music, they're only into the artist because they fancy him.

Any thoughts on this? Is the music industry sexist? Is it getting better or worse? Are there any female musicians (especially instrumentalists) who have inspired you? Do you think men are genetically better at music than women? Do men and women listen to music in different ways? Any other comments remotely connected to this topic?

[godisinthesilences]

wow this is an absolutely fantastic entry Mel. THANK YOU AND IT IS ABOUT TIME!
I can think of many female mucical artists who've inspired me Kate Bush, Hazel O Connor, Tori Amos, October project, Sarah Mclaughlin (her first cd Touch is amazing), Loreena Mckennitt, Jewel (first cd before she went hollywood), and my list could go on.

I agree that the genre of music does exploit a woman's sexuality to sell music... and I would agree it is probably more difficult for a woman to get ahead if she isn't willing to play the sexuality game. Not meaning she give it up or anything (but I'm sure that happens), more so meaning that she needs to be open to pushing her own sexuality and "pretty-ness" to the forefront.

Sadly the world we live in tends to be driven by two things... a man's ego (penis) and money. I think all women on the planet can relate to not being thought as highly for jobs and by god we are certainly in most cases not paid the same as a man for the same job. (this is called the glass celiing). I think it is rather irrelevant that it is the music business being sexist and that it is just the world at large. Women do give away some of their own innate power by not pushing more forcefully for change, but honestly many women are just not that interested in women's rights for equality. Men look at us as raging lesbians with a problem, but perhaps they should look at us more like we are a minority with the same rights to everything as they have.

I know from the experiences in the art world that women are not looked at as being as competent or capable as a man. We have more trouble getting our work shown in a serious light, we have more trouble finding patronage, and we are sexually harrassed as well by men who believe themselves to have the power over us. I know one local gallery who has never shown a solo woman's exhibit in it (except for his mother and this 4 year old supposed wonder child - which in releality most believe her father is finishing her paintings being an unrecognized frustrated artist himself). This is infuriating to me. I see and experience first hand how men look at me with a sense of disbelief and wonder at my technical knowledge in photography and also believe that women aren't as capable of making provocative or meaningful artwork.
Now obviously this certainly isn't the case with every man ... and there are a tremendous number of very famous and wonderful reverred women artists, but just remember most of them had to befriend a man or get ahead with the help of a man. This is just the way it is.
Men fear us much of the time. We are strange hard to understand creatures from another planet. The thing is we look at them in the same fashion... we just don't get it... and they just don't get it. Men seem to fear all that a woman is capable of ... it robs them of their hard on. And their hard on is their power (ego). Men sexualized the planet not women. Women get big boob implants for men... women hate their bodies because of harsh societal judgments put into place by men. The fashion industry, an industry created for the betterment of women and as a creative avenue, began through the designs of men. Women decide to be attractive in certain ways to attract a mate... generally a man (but not always). Now in general there is nothing wrong with this concept... except it tends to strips a woman of her own innate power. Yes we have free will and yes we can decide not to play into this. Many women do "buck the system", but it makes it a very very hard road to follow.

I'm not saying men are awful beings on the planet. I am not one of those kinds of feminists. Men are wonderful inspiring creatures... just as women are. For me I think it is more about equality for us all... treating each person on this planet with respect and honoring their soul for the individual they are. The planet is chock full of inequalities... it is how we as individuals decide to react that is the only thing that will change.

I apologize for the diatribe... I most certainly could have kept going and going and going. This is an age old issue, but anyone who knows does realize that the majority of this planet at one point looked at women with a sense of wonder and awe and as beings of wisdom and respect. Men and women worked as partners... we balance each other out. We are yin and yang energy. We need one another plain and simple. One is not better than the other...

I'm certain I'll get slammed in some way but this is a passionate topic and I admit to having very VERY strong feelings about it.

[Silver Moon]

I agree that the genre of music does exploit a woman's sexuality to sell music... and I would agree it is probably more difficult for a woman to get ahead if she isn't willing to play the sexuality game. Not meaning she give it up or anything (but I'm sure that happens), more so meaning that she needs to be open to pushing her own sexuality and "pretty-ness" to the forefront.

Yep. I see what you mean especially with celebrities... It seems like a man, even if they aren't very beautiful can be famous for their personality (Bill Murray, Wayne Knight, Morgan Freeman) But it seems like all women celebrities have to be super thin, long legged, shiny long hair, a turned up nose, and tan skin... But almost no personality.

I also think that a lot of times when women get breast implants, eating disorders, and wear fashionable clothing it's less for men and more to make other women 'jealous' ... A lot of men actually don't care about the huge boobs and tiny waist and Gucci dresses as much as we think they do... A lot of times it seems more like a popularity contest.

-K-

[godisinthesilences]

I also think that a lot of times when women get breast implants, eating disorders, and wear fashionable clothing it's less for men and more to make other women 'jealous' ... A lot of men actually don't care about the huge boobs and tiny waist and Gucci dresses as much as we think they do... A lot of times it seems more like a popularity contest.

-K-

Yes it does seem to be a status symbol now for everyone to be matchy matchy and look exactly the same. But, what i was getting at was the fashion and beauty industry when it began and became more accessible to every person. This came about with the advent of photography being used for fashion shoots in the 50s. Most heads in fashion back in the day were men... Coco Chanel being one of the very few women who had an empire from a fashionista point of view.
Most fine art photographers can not logistically earn a great living off their art work so they go into commercial photography work... most of the time fashion... they earn huge money and then they can do their fine art work "on the side". The other side of that are the ones who go into education (like me). I did the commercial/fashion thing for years. I saw from the inside out the industry. Very shallow and I had enough.

As a sisterhood we have definitely lost our way. We fight and argue far too much amongst ourselves and we belittle ourselves to the point of becoming invisible. We lose our true spirits and selves and then blame others for it... we give and give and give ... sacrificing who we are in the bargain. That is who we have become.... not the revered goddesses we are.

[Melaszka]

Great posts, gods. I'm glad it's not just me.

I agree that the genre of music does exploit a woman's sexuality to sell music... and I would agree it is probably more difficult for a woman to get ahead if she isn't willing to play the sexuality game. Not meaning she give it up or anything (but I'm sure that happens), more so meaning that she needs to be open to pushing her own sexuality and "pretty-ness" to the forefront.

Then there's the opposite thing, as well - if a female musician happens to be sexually attractive, even if she's not pushing it, there's always the snide suggestion that she's only in the band as eye candy, not because of her talent. We're da*ned if we're sexy, and da*ned if we're not sexy.

I'm appalled and sorry to hear that there's still so much prejudice in the art world.

Men are wonderful inspiring creatures... just as women are. For me I think it is more about equality for us all... treating each person on this planet with respect and honoring their soul for the individual they are. The planet is chock full of inequalities... it is how we as individuals decide to react that is the only thing that will change.

Amen!

I think it's interesting that so many female singer/songwriters have emerged recently, since it's become more affordable to release an album independently of the big labels, and sites like MySpace have made it possible to market your work directly to the fans, without going through a label or a PR company. Suggests to me that the men in charge of the industry were the ones blocking the talent coming through and underestimated the appetite for women's music there was out there.

Amongst the many female musicians who have inspired me: Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Michelle Shocked, Annie Lennox, Alison Moyet, Sally Still (bassist with Furniture), Sheema Mukherjee (sitarist with Transglobal Underground)

I also think David deserves a gold star for workign with and promotig female artists over the years.

[godisinthesilences]

Mel completely agree with you on all counts... and most definately david as well as Steve!

I think musicians may be more open minded to talent than the industry heads. Sort of the same as anyone with what they perceive as a level of power. Plus they are also fueling what is "hot" at the moment instead of looking for great talents.

And I agree you can be completely gorgeous and have mountains of talent.

I think the best most important thing is to surround yourself with the most encouraging positive people and put forth an atmosphere of love (not romantic love but authentic soul love). This will help make ones own world an easier path to follow. At the very least you feel supported in yourself and your group.

[Chet]

great topic Mel.
great comments from all.
to start with I just want to mention some women who inspire me:
Joni Mitchell, Beth Gibbons, Patti Smith, Nico, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Bjork
and that great bass player of Smashing Pumpkins, and that great drummer of Lenny Kravitz, and that great bass player of Bowie, and the list could go on...
oh, I want to write so much more, especially about fashion, photos, more about the music industry and litterature...
but I have to think about how to put it all down.
more soon...

[Melaszka]

oh, I want to write so much more, especially about fashion, photos, more about the music industry and litterature...
but I have to think about how to put it all down.
more soon...

Apologies for bumping my own thread, but I'm really looking forward to what else you've got to say, Chet.

And how could I have forgotten Bjork?!!

[godisinthesilences]

i know i forgot bjork myself!