The Sylvian/Ferry comparison

[lastgoldstar]

Am I the only person who does not understand the comparison between David's vocals during Japan and Bryan Ferry's? I listen to a lot of Roxy Music and I've just never heard it. However, stylistically, one could argue that they're similar, but in reality, there were a ton of other singers with that style at the time, not just David and Bryan. But every review for Japan I read mentions David's "Bryan Ferry-esque vocals"- why is he singled out?

Any thoughts?

[heartofdavid]

I think that came about because John Punter, who produced Japan, also produced Roxy Music.

I don't think the vocals are similar, although I like both. I think David's voice has a richer timbre and he sings more clearly than Ferry, who has a rather mumbled delivery (IMO).

[krausy]

Yeah, I never got that either, although I understand the producer connection. Lots of times the press will notice that bands/artists share a producer in common and then try to place them in the same bin so to speak.

I love Roxy/Ferry as well but I don't think Bryan and David sound like each other. The style of song may hint at it sometimes, but other than that, no.

I felt this way 20 years ago as well. Back then I had only heard Tin Drum so I never made any Roxy/Japan connection at all.

[kinki]

Back then I had only heard Tin Drum so I never made any Roxy/Japan connection at all.

Yeah, me too, but I subsequently read about the Ferry comparison, which I always interpreted as critics being derogatory - implying he was a 'second-rate' Ferry. I suppose there was a certain languid 'lounge-lizard' quality about David's performing manner which brought about the comparison, but beyond that and a bit of a similar warbling style, the comparison ends...

As far as Im concerned David is unique. But thenb I would say that wouldnt I.

[krausy]

Back then I had only heard Tin Drum so I never made any Roxy/Japan connection at all.

Yeah, me too, but I subsequently read about the Ferry comparison, which I always interpreted as critics being derogatory - implying he was a 'second-rate' Ferry. I suppose there was a certain languid 'lounge-lizard' quality about David's performing manner which brought about the comparison, but beyond that and a bit of a similar warbling style, the comparison ends...

As far as Im concerned David is unique. But thenb I would say that wouldnt I.

But of course....................

I would say the closest similarities show up in the "I Second That Emotion" song and video, but other than that I can't compare.

This is definitely a product of the critics, which the more I read from them the less I believe from them, so why bother anymore really? I listen to and buy what I like and that is that. The critics rarely if ever have any impact on my decisions in this area, so they may as well shut up.

[godisinthesilences]

I never read what critics write... i am not going to let some other person decide what suits me...

I don't see the similarities between ferry and sylvian either.... I enjoy both but they are very different artists.

[lastgoldstar]

Yeah, me too, but I subsequently read about the Ferry comparison, which I always interpreted as critics being derogatory - implying he was a 'second-rate' Ferry.

As far as Im concerned David is unique. But thenb I would say that wouldnt I.

Yeah, that's why it I find it a bit irritating sometimes- they make it sound like he's not as good as Ferry is. When, of course, there's not much to compare, seeing as they are two different people with two different voices. Dear David is definitely unique.

Oh, I completely forgot that John Punter had produced both bands. Well, that certainly explains a lot.

[kinki]

I dont bother with critics any more - taste is all so subjective.

Weren't Japan also called 'second-rate New York Dolls' too?

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The critics were right about The Da Vinci Code though, I'll give them that. What a turkey.

[krausy]

[quote="kinki"]I dont bother with critics any more - taste is all so subjective.

Weren't Japan also called 'second-rate New York Dolls' too?


Yep. Just like we have been saying, the critics are too quick to lump them together in the same bin as sounding like "someone else" when actually the critics don't have balls enough to say they are original and/or taking their own direction.

[kinki]

the critics don't have balls enough to say they are original and/or taking their own direction.

Exactly. It's so frustrating how critics seemingly have the power to make or break a band purely by not having the courage of their conviction to come out and actually say something positive about them instead of following what everyone else says.

[heartofdavid]

I came across an interview with John Punter (producer) in Bamboo 11 where he talks about the Roxy/Ferry comparisons, and also speaks about what it was like working with Japan; what he thought of them as musicians and people.

If anyone is interested, I can type some parts of it here.

[kinki]

If anyone's interested? TOO RIGHT!!! Looking forward to reading it Heart.

[heartofdavid]

From “Bamboo” #11, Winter ’86 – Excerpts from John Punter Interview Part 1, which took place at Air Studio (Studio No. 2). Interviewed by Howie and Debi from the fanzine.

"...I haven’t seen Steve since…well, I saw Rich at a party here in Autumn last year. I saw Steve when he was recording with Icehouse.

What did he do with them? Single or album?

I think it was part of an album. He was in here for quite a while. Mick I haven’t seen…is he still alive?!! (laughs)

We haven’t seen Mick since October ’84 when we did an interview with him. He’s recently had David working with him. (John raises an eyebrow in surprise then smiles.)

Well, Big Bad Syl I haven’t seen for a million years!! I saw him when the ambient album was the ambient album before it became the solo album…I think it was then, and good old Rob….”

Your initial impression of them (Japan)?

The nearest thing I can equate it to, and I know a lot of people said they were Roxy clones, but I had the same feeling when I met Roxy. Chris Thomas was asked to finish the “For Your Pleasure” album which the band had stared with another producer. At that time I was Chris’s engineer and I met Roxy in Air No. 1. The feeling I got from Roxy was the same as the feeling I got from Japan. It’s difficult because people said Japan were Roxy clones and Dave was a Bryan clone and this, that and the other, which I don’t agree with, at all. It was the feeling f excitement, that was the same.

The music press always linked Japan to Roxy, mainly through David’s vocals – do you think it had anything to do with your involvement with both bands?

I dunno. When I was in Canada, I did an album with a band called Spoons and I did a lot of radio and TV interviewing – ‘coz I was quite a star out there – thank you! They always said, “John Punter of Roxy Music and Japan fame.” I didn’t like that expression, but I could see what people were getting at. But Japan were nowhere near the same as Roxy. Just think of what Roxy were. They had a rock ‘n’ roll drummer, who had nothing to do with the way Steve played. Whether David was influenced by Bryan I can’t say. There were certain inflections, but it wasn’t like he was copying Bryan – you can’t copy Bryan, Bryan is a unique entity, and in many ways David is a unique entity too.

When I said I felt the same excitement with Japan as I had with Roxy, you should make it clear Japan were not the second coming. It was that same feeling of excitement that I’d felt before. You should make a point of that.

Japan looked so outrageous, but underneath, when you spoke to them, they were dead normal, they still are, I think. Boblett (Rob Dean) was the most normal of all, when we were on tour he and I used to go off and do other things, he’s always been a mate, the fact that we still keep in touch; he’s made the effort to keep in touch.

It sounds as if Rob kept his feet on the floor.

Yeah, he did. Rob was always the down-to-earth person for me, always. Not that the others were starry-eyed, if you like, but those four were such an insular unit and Rob was on the outside, the others were so close. Not that Rob wasn’t part of that, but Rob could also be a part of something else. In the old days, to get the other guys to out in public was almost a problem. I managed to get them all down the pub at one point either when we were making “Quiet Life” or “Polaroids.” So, I briefly had all ex-members, including David, in the pub for a drink!

Did they enjoy it?

Probably not! I probably think they did it for me! But when I first met them I’d been through a very hard gig. I did the gig as a favour and it had taken longer and cost a lot more money and I was feeling guilty. I came out of that and met Japan and it was like a re-awakening. It was new, it was fresh…it was great!

How were they then, as people and musicians?

Musicians – they were brilliant, unique…I then all of them have a certain style. I don’t know any other player that plays like Mick, I don’t know any other drummer that drums like Steve. Being an ex-drummer myself, Steve doesn’t play drums the normal way. It’s always the opposite, which is very hard to conceive. I’ve never known him to play a normal pattern, it’s always a pattern reversed around a beat and he’s always had that to this style. The same with Rob. Over the years, Rob has improved tremendously, he’s playing like a demon now…and Rich was always a subtle texturizer, he created sounds that fitted in with everything else going on.

Your first project together. Did they say, “This is what we want you to do”, or did you say, “This is an idea, try this?”

The musical direction had already been decided by the band. Everyone says “Quiet Life” was such a positive change. Obviously I think I had a influence, because I was involved in it, but it wasn’t a case of me saying, “This is how we’re gonna do it lads!”

Atmosphere during the three albums you worked on, Quiet Life, Polaroids and Oil on Canvas?

John spins slowly away in his chair, smiles, puts his hand to his mouth and mutters, “You stinker.” We have to laugh.

There’s a change, isn’t there?

Yeah…yeah. Are you talking about atmosphere, how I felt, or general mood?

Both. I mean, there’s a definite change in those records.

Yeah….yeah….”Quiet Life” is still my favorite album. That is a magic album for me…it’s difficult because I know so many people are going to see this, and the band will read it too…

We’ll edit it.

No. It’s ok. I feel personally that the band were at their strongest and most togetherness during “Quiet Life.” I personally had problems during “Polaroids.” “Oil on Canvas” was in a way like getting back again, because I had missed out on “Tin Drum” (produced by Steve Nye) and what had gone on in the recording of that album and that time. So when we came to do the Pioneer’s tour and the “Oil on Canvas” album, which I always think of as a block thing, I was very pleased that they asked me to do it with them. I think we succeeded in bringing them back to what I remembered them, the sort of feeling that followed on from “Quiet Life” (the album and tour).

I very much enjoyed the Sons of Pioneers tour, it was good to get back to working with them, they seemed to lighten up. To me they all got so intense, so serious and so heavy…Whereas on “Quiet Life” and “Polaroids” there was a sense of humor, they are humorous guys! A lot of people think of them as being stiff, but Mick is one of the funniest people I’ve ever met, to the point of being stupid! He’d get everyone else going, he’d call himself the clown, he was the court-jester.

But then they seemed to get this image of “This is my Art. Nothing can interfere with it” and all that lark, but they’re really normal underneath, I think so. They always have been and they always will be.”

[Poisoned_Apathy]

Thanks for that heart!! Really interesting to know the point of view of someone who was so close to them.

[lastgoldstar]

Thank you for the article, Heartofdavid, it was a really good read.

Well, Big Bad Syl I haven’t seen for a million years!

"Big Bad Syl"? *dies laughing*

I wonder if he ever called David that to his face.