David Sylvian - Manafon

[Tin Bird]

I'm truly impressed with the interpretations of Sylvian's songs/lyrics from Manafon. Nice job! I think the songs probably aren't meant to necesarily be taken in a linear/literal fashion...although I would agree that "Snow White" obviously makes allusion to drug use and to Ingrid. A note..I seem to remember Sylvian admitting to using back in the day..so, hopefully, this isn't a reference to himself.

[Simonp]

Interesting post on nighporter group -

Sylvian's latest, Manafon, confirms what I suspect many of us have believed for a while: Sylvian is a spent force. He hasn't made a decent album since 1987 and that was a looooong time ago. I know that David has been exploring other avenues in his music since then but his latest avenue is a dead end. Even the much-lauded Nine Horses album, for me, demonstrates a key problem with Sylvian's music in the last two decades: his sense of melody has deserted him completely.

His vocal melodies are now very simplistic and incredibly 'samey'. The problem with his improvisational style is that, well, it actually sounds like he's making it up as he goes along. What happened to the craft of his best songs? He seems unwilling to craft a song now prefering the 'honesty' of an improvised approach. I had been hoping that Blemish was a blemish but he's now followed it with a companion piece, SIX years later. I thought David liked to 'move on' these days?

It's a terrible waste of an incredible talent. Listening to his most beautiful music - Brilliant Trees, Forbidden Colours, Weathered Wall, Before the Bullfight, When Love Walks In, Wave, Orpheus, Ride, Let the Happiness In - is enough to make you weep now, weep over what has been lost.

Thanks for the memories David but it looks like, that's it.

[Chet]

thanks SimonP for posting.
interesting indeed...

[baht habit]

Interesting post on nighporter group -

Sylvian's latest, Manafon, confirms what I suspect many of us have believed for a while: Sylvian is a spent force. He hasn't made a decent album since 1987 and that was a looooong time ago. I know that David has been exploring other avenues in his music since then but his latest avenue is a dead end. Even the much-lauded Nine Horses album, for me, demonstrates a key problem with Sylvian's music in the last two decades: his sense of melody has deserted him completely.

His vocal melodies are now very simplistic and incredibly 'samey'. The problem with his improvisational style is that, well, it actually sounds like he's making it up as he goes along. What happened to the craft of his best songs? He seems unwilling to craft a song now prefering the 'honesty' of an improvised approach. I had been hoping that Blemish was a blemish but he's now followed it with a companion piece, SIX years later. I thought David liked to 'move on' these days?

It's a terrible waste of an incredible talent. Listening to his most beautiful music - Brilliant Trees, Forbidden Colours, Weathered Wall, Before the Bullfight, When Love Walks In, Wave, Orpheus, Ride, Let the Happiness In - is enough to make you weep now, weep over what has been lost.

Thanks for the memories David but it looks like, that's it.

That post definitely belongs in my Trauma Therapy thread. I'll put it there right now. Thanks for posting that Simon.

[Simonp]

No problem Baht...there's already some interesting exchanges going on on the Nighporter forum just now about Manafon.

[tulipmania]

I must say that I am in dread of what is coming with Manafon, listening to the tracks and samples so far. If I were the record company, based on advance listening and feedback, I would pull this release now. Ok, so he's not in that arrangement anymore. I cant help thinking he's really fcuked up this time, and we cant expect an artist to regain the greatnes of earlier years. He has been an acquired taste for many years now, but this is like an exclusive club of fans within an already exclusive members only club at the top of Claridges hotel.

[digimarsh]

Interesting post on nighporter group -

Sylvian's latest, Manafon, confirms what I suspect many of us have believed for a while: Sylvian is a spent force. He hasn't made a decent album since 1987 and that was a looooong time ago. I know that David has been exploring other avenues in his music since then but his latest avenue is a dead end. Even the much-lauded Nine Horses album, for me, demonstrates a key problem with Sylvian's music in the last two decades: his sense of melody has deserted him completely.

His vocal melodies are now very simplistic and incredibly 'samey'. The problem with his improvisational style is that, well, it actually sounds like he's making it up as he goes along. What happened to the craft of his best songs? He seems unwilling to craft a song now prefering the 'honesty' of an improvised approach. I had been hoping that Blemish was a blemish but he's now followed it with a companion piece, SIX years later. I thought David liked to 'move on' these days?

It's a terrible waste of an incredible talent. Listening to his most beautiful music - Brilliant Trees, Forbidden Colours, Weathered Wall, Before the Bullfight, When Love Walks In, Wave, Orpheus, Ride, Let the Happiness In - is enough to make you weep now, weep over what has been lost.

Thanks for the memories David but it looks like, that's it.

I can honestly say i do not agree with the induvidual who posted this, but its an opinon and to be respected,
in some ways i can understand why this person feels that way.David has certainly moved in a completly different
direction in the latter years of his career and 'Manafon' is a far cry from the lush soundscapes of late 1980's.

[becky]

I must say that I am in dread of what is coming with Manafon, listening to the tracks and samples so far. If I were the record company, based on advance listening and feedback, I would pull this release now. Ok, so he's not in that arrangement anymore. I cant help thinking he's really fcuked up this time, and we cant expect an artist to regain the greatnes of earlier years. He has been an acquired taste for many years now, but this is like an exclusive club of fans within an already exclusive members only club at the top of Claridges hotel.

Oooo I can feel a Baht response rumbling along my internet connection....

With reference to your comment - 'If I were the record company, based on advance listening and feedback, I would pull this release now' - as Manafon is being released through samdhisound which David set up himself and owns - guess that's not gonna be a problem!

I don't think David's intention with this new direction is to be artistically elitist - just stripping away any artifice so that the work is raw and pure - he's just pushing the boundaries like he always has done...question is are you up to the challenge of having your boundaries pushed?

[Simonp]

Interesting post on nighporter group -

Sylvian's latest, Manafon, confirms what I suspect many of us have believed for a while: Sylvian is a spent force..

I can honestly say i do not agree with the induvidual who posted this, but its an opinon and to be respected,
in some ways i can understand why this person feels that way.David has certainly moved in a completly different
direction in the latter years of his career and 'Manafon' is a far cry from the lush soundscapes of late 1980's.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree here. Sylvian is a spent force? Far from it. I think the problem is that many of his fans of his earlier material just don't like the direction he is taking now. That does not mean the work he produces now is any poorer than Brilliant Trees or GTE. It's just DIFFERENT. He's in a different place musically but the work he is producing now is just as beautiful as anything from the 80's/early 90's. Okay we all like Heartbeat or SOTB but if he continually reproduced work like that then yes i would be agreeing, he is a spent force.

What is also surprising the fact that people are ready to write David off based on the short clips of Manafon he has up on his website. why dont you buy the album and listen to it in its entirety before you pass judgement. It seems to me that many of you had already made up your mind about this record before you had even heard it. I have to confess. I was ready to hate it. But it's renewed my faith in him as an artist and musician. Give it a chance people.

[karnsculpture]

I'm extremely angry that the post from the japan-pioneers list has been used here, firstly because it gives the impression that it was posted by me on the Nightporter site by me, and secondly because it appears to have been used without the original poster's consent, and whatever your views are on Manafon (which I agree with pretty much - its way to early to dismiss the album), any responses should be at japan-pioneers, not here.

[baht habit]

Oooo I can feel a Baht response rumbling along my internet connection....

With reference to your comment - 'If I were the record company, based on advance listening and feedback, I would pull this release now' - as Manafon is being released through samdhisound which David set up himself and owns - guess that's not gonna be a problem!

I don't think David's intention with this new direction is to be artistically elitist - just stripping away any artifice so that the work is raw and pure - he's just pushing the boundaries like he always has done...question is are you up to the challenge of having your boundaries pushed?

Any response from me would be redundant. You said it all so well, becky - my exact sentiments.

[becky]

Hey, you've really set the cat amongst the pigeons with your 'Trauma' thread haven't you! (or seeing as this is Manafon we're talking about - should I say 'you've really set the foxes amongst the rabbits'!)

[digimarsh]

When Dead Bees was released and then subsequently E & N it was the end of an era from my point of view,
Dead bees in many was proved that David had little to add to what he had done before.
He may have been tempted to stop at that point but i think the opportunity to explore new concepts from within his own
label has inspired him.
I don't want to keep hearing remolded versions of secrets ,i want new exciting music, thats the lure of the man variety,
Manafon gets my vote.

[japanfan]

Im not a fan of Manafon, I feel its too minimalistic. Which is a shame because i love the lyrics and when put to a full musical accompaniment they really stand out ala the Modesto Muñiz remix of small metal gods. I really hope David gets Modesto Muñiz to remix Manafon after the original has been out a few months as its defo something i would purchase!

[camphorvan]

Remember The Last Temptation of Christ and the condemnation that the fundamentalist Christians received for condemning it without actually having seen it? In fact I was in London at the time, had some time to waste and this guy approached me; 'have you heard about the gospels?' he said. I thought; ok I have some time to kill, I'll give you a chance. I asked him at one point what he thought of the film. 'Demonic' he said 'Real demonic'. I then asked him if he'd seen it, to which he said no. I'm sorry to say this, but my opinion is; if you dismiss something without having been an audience of it for more than a few snippets/trailers and then rashly condemn it, I don't think I could value that person's opinion because it isn't based on informed judgement. But it's always ok to dislike something or disagree with the direction an artist is taking- but I think you have to experience it first. OR avoid it and say 'not my cup of tea thanks'. I don't think the direction an artist takes merits anger. For my own part, I think Sylvian is an incredibly brave 'artist''; it takes guts to produce work that you know a lot of people just aren't going to like. Having said that, I haven't heard it. I bet those snippets are totally mis-leading and it's actually a dub RnB soul mash up. Or not as the case may be.

And that's my tuppence worth over. I shall now get my coat. I will be standing in the gutter if anyone wants me.